Dropouts

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  • #28901
    Laszlo .Laszlo
    Keymaster

    Hi Peter,

    That’s an interesting feedback.
    It seems something seriously wrong. I spent some time to read though all of the logs.
    The problem there’s no strait indication what is going on with the drive.
    eg:
    This can be happens because of the “sleep mode”, you can see right after starting the recording there’s a problem

    (14:08:57) -> Started pre-recording
    (14:21:36) -> Start Recording
    (14:21:36) -> Renaming Directory from /MultiTrack/_TempTake0007 to /MultiTrack/Take0007
    (14:21:37) -> Entered Recording State
    (14:21:47) -> Error: No streaming message received for last 10 seconds!!!
    (14:21:53) -> Button Stop pressed from uRemote: Stopping recording Now
    (14:21:54) -> Exiting Recording State

    But this one is really strange. Here you can see in the first chuck has no problem at all then everything messed up.
    (16:14:18) -> Started pre-recording
    (16:45:38) -> Start Recording
    (16:45:38) -> Renaming Directory from /MultiTrack/_TempTake0005 to /MultiTrack/Take0005
    (16:45:40) -> Entered Recording State
    (16:45:45) -> Next Gapless recording file created : MultiTrack/Take0005/Take0005(0002).wav
    (16:53:28) -> Next Gapless recording file created : MultiTrack/Take0005/Take0005(0003).wav
    (16:55:16) -> Error: Dropout @:564 seconds
    (16:55:22) -> Error: Dropout @:569 seconds
    (16:55:22) -> Error: No streaming message received for last 10 seconds!!!
    (16:55:27) -> Error: Dropout @:574 seconds
    .
    .
    .
    (17:13:39) -> Next Gapless recording file created : MultiTrack/Take0005/Take0005(0004).wav
    (17:13:44) -> File Enocder Error: File WriteError

    Some of your logs has this line: Error: No streaming message received for last 10 seconds!!!
    This means something is really wrong and the data trasfer stops more than 10 seconds, and after that the “File Enocder Error: File WriteError” really indicate serious problem.

    Do you ever experienced issue where you try to record from analog inputs using the console internal clock?
    Which device is the master in your setup where you are using digital communication?

    About the uTool, in Target editor mode it just reads the first chunk of the recording, which is around 8 minutes, that’s why you cannot play back the entry song. I don’t think we will provide a solution for this request in the coming weeks (sorry)

    I agree it worth to try with SSD (MUST BE FORMATTED WITH THE CARD).
    It would be nice to try with one another HDD as well.

    Somehow the uTrack-X32 cannot access to the drive cannot finish the write process.
    [i]
    When the first band start I start the record after while of a time I notice that Cymatic record time freeze and runs not synchro white the normal time. The seconds make some jumps or lost.[/i]
    This can happens if you have a lot’s of dropouts in the recording or when not possible to write on the drive.

    #28902
    Cederick ForsbergCederick Forsberg
    Participant

    Sorry but I’m sending back this device back to Thomann while I can still get my money back.

    I’m recording a live album in 4 weeks and I CANNOT TRUST THIS DEVICE TO WORK. I can’t afford having another gig destroyed by dropouts!

    I’m gonna record straight to my laptop from the stock USB interface card in the X32 instead, it’s a lot more reliable and never fails!

    #28903
    Laszlo .Laszlo
    Keymaster

    Sure fully understood you are pissed of is something fails.
    I would give a try with the updated firmware to have better compatibility with the drives and include almost two years development but of course that’s your decision.

    #28906
    PeterPeter
    Participant

    Hello Laszlo

    In uTool I see on take 007 an error, in exploder I notice no date on the folder time stamp…

    (14:08:57) -> Started pre-recording
    (14:21:36) -> Start Recording
    (14:21:36) -> Renaming Directory from /MultiTrack/_TempTake0007 to /MultiTrack/Take0007
    (14:21:37) -> Entered Recording State
    (14:21:47) -> Error: No streaming message received for last 10 seconds!!!
    (14:21:53) -> Button Stop pressed from uRemote: Stopping recording Now
    (14:21:54) -> Exiting Recording State

    See also attachment…

    [i]
    Do you ever experienced issue where you try to record from analog inputs using the console internal clock?[/i]

    Yes a year ago some dropouts but this was with old firmware, and a discussible hard drive.
    For the other time I didn’t notice any problem on this old drive, but I will check this drive extra well when I’m at home.

    Which device is the master in your setup where you are using digital communication?

    On The Live Gig Saturday this was the FOH mixer a Midas M32 firmware 3.07. The X32 has also Firmware 3.07 the DL32 we don’t know the firmware maybe 1.7

    The situation was:

    M32 FOH AES50 A >>> AES50 A- DL32 Stage box – AES50 B – <<<< X32 monitor AES50 A setup “Synchronization” on AES50 A, and have the Cymatic card for record.

    The Gain was on the M32 FOH mixer, I use the trim function on the X32 monitor (blender).

    At home the test situation (on Sunday and Monday) used to be an X32 rack for playback from Cymatic card thru the AES50 A. AES50 A outputs tab 1-8 set to card 1-8, and so on. The X32 Core is connect to the rack over AES50 A and is the Cymatic record device and use the same hard drive from Saturday.

    Then I have connect also a X32 compact at the rack on the rack AES50 B and on the compact is the AES50 A used, his Cymatic card looks also at AES50 A and have also a drive for record (the old one). Both the core and compact set his “Synchronization” at AES50 A. I make this option to see if both records drives make the same record or dropouts if there was a problem… but as I mention there were no problem on Sunday.

    The different in the live and test situation is there is no DL32 StageBox in this setup.

    I’m afraid there is some synchronization problems in the setup from Saturday, I now that the Behringer StageBox S16 have a upgrade to version 2.2 because of connect problems. We don’t know witch version the DL32 has…. The last version for this device is Version 1.7 maybe Cymatic can ask this to the Midas develop team

    From Behringer site
    [i][b]
    S16 Firmware Update[/b]

    Version 2.2 (10 December 2014)

    The firmware update 2.2 for S16 adds performance improvements and new features to the stagebox operating system. This new version improves synchronization to external clock masters (e.g. Madi or Dante networks) and communication when concurrently booting S16 and X32 series consoles. It also allows routing remote control from BEHRINGER X32 and MIDAS M32 series consoles for
    TURBOSOUND iQ Speaker Series through the P16 ULTRANET output of your S16 stagebox.[/i]

    What I can try this evening (week) is the X32 rack as play back to a S16 StageBox AES50 –A port then from S16 AES50- B send to the Core AES50 A as record device, “Synchronization” at AES50 A.

    When there is still no problem I will ask my friend to make the same setup as last Saturday.
    But this will be not can do in a couple of days maybe next two weeks

    Ore this weekend (Saturday) a other friend of my is coming over for a gig and have also a M32 with a DL32, I ask him to connect my Core at his DL32 AES50 B Port and try to record and see wat happen

    Greetings Peter
    And again sorry for my bad English.

    #28907
    PeterPeter
    Participant

    Hello Laszlo

    I had spoken with my friend and for sure we make next Saturday a setup, similar to the setup of last Saturday.
    With a Midas M32 rack a DL32 and a X32 core instant of the X32 full. The core has then the Cymatic card and hard drive from the X32 Full from last Saturday.

    if I test the S16 stage box at home I will send you the results

    And for Thibault and Cederick I have a question, please can you explain what were your setup.
    Standalone mixer, or also over some AES50 network communication.
    And on wat point you notice you have dropouts at the record or on playback mode

    And Cederick please give the firmware upgrade a try…

    Greetings Peter

    #28912
    PeterPeter
    Participant

    Hello Laszlo

    I make the test with the Stage box S16 and I found some interesting problems.

    The setup was from the x32 rack AES50 A >>> S16 AES50 A – S16 AES50 B >>> X32 core AES50 A.
    The rack is the playback and the Record is on the Core.

    Between the s16 and the core I use a cheap network cable without a neutrik connector, like the same we have on Saturday.

    When I hit this cable I get sync problems, no drop outs in the log file. But I saw sometimes a error page on my IPad that I recognize from Saturday. Also in some log I found the same massage I have from Saturday like in take 42 “Error: No streaming message received for last 10 seconds!!!

    But the most times a log message where about “Error: Card clock not in lock anymore” and no dropouts.. damm
    Not all the errors page I get on my iPad, this was the same on Saturday, like now I have one or two message.

    So now I’m very curios to make the same test with the DL32 because this runs on software version 1.7 and the S16 runs on version 2.2. I don’t know if there is any different but I’m for sure Behringer has update there S16 to V2.2 because of the connecting problems, see also my other reply

    Next Saturday I have the possibility to test it with a DL32, I hope I get the same problems… Then we now what was happing and we have a solution so fingers crossed

    When you will I can send you some videos and pictures.

    Greetings Peter

    #28920
    Laszlo .Laszlo
    Keymaster

    Thanks for the detailed information.
    Still not clear what is this issue exactly. If you have a serious clocking issue most likely the recording should stop.
    The error message on the uRemote means: “RecordingWriteError / Recording error! / Disk Write Error”
    First of all I would try another drive as I see correctly in the logs you are using the same Hitachi drive all the time.
    I looking forward for your feedback about your test with a different gear and with the different drive

    #28926
    Cederick ForsbergCederick Forsberg
    Participant

    [quote=”pvisscher” post=3239]
    And Cederick please give the firmware upgrade a try…

    Greetings Peter[/quote]

    I only have a few days left before I need to return it to Thomann to get my money back.

    I really dont have time to try it out anymore.

    This device looked like the best thing I could ever have to recording live shows but whats the point when:

    1. It gives tons of dropouts

    2. I CANNOT DOWNLOAD THE LATEST FIRMWARE!

    I’ve tried to say this several times but I only come to an error page!

    I can download the previous firmware, but have no use for that. The latest firmware is just an error page!

    Can somebody send me the firmware by email, and I MAYBE will have time to quick-try the uTrack x-32 before returning.

    cederick.forsberg@gmail.com

    Send the firmware file there please.

    #28927
    Cederick ForsbergCederick Forsberg
    Participant

    This is what I get when I’m trying to download the latest firmware!

    NOT the earlier, those can be downloaded just fine.

    [IMG]https://i63.tinypic.com/2jaffgy.jpg[/IMG]

    #28928
    PeterPeter
    Participant

    Hello Cederick

    You Have mail.

    You can use the card also as interface between your computer and the X32.
    Like the normal X32 usb card. I use reaper as DAW.

    Greetings Peter

    And sorry for my bad Englisch

    #28930
    Laszlo .Laszlo
    Keymaster

    [quote=”Cederick” post=3254]This is what I get when I’m trying to download the latest firmware!

    NOT the earlier, those can be downloaded just fine.

    [/quote]

    The reason why you have this error because the previous files are zip and the current file is .bcd format. It seems the internet explorer is the only browser on the word which not able to download this 2MB file.
    I have sent you an explanation and the firmware in email.

    #28932
    Cederick ForsbergCederick Forsberg
    Participant

    Ok thanks. I downloaded with Opera.

    Anyway, the utrack rec blinks red, and the status blinks green endlessly!

    How long should I wait?

    You should explain more on the update page what all the lights mean because this is not super obvious for somebody who dont know…

    #28934
    Laszlo .Laszlo
    Keymaster

    The formatting time depend on the drive size. It should take several minutes (maximum)
    You can find details about the LED status in the user manual or quick start guide
    https://cymaticaudio.com/images/downloads/manuals_and_brochures/Cymatic_uTrack-X32_QuickStartGuide_EN.pdf

    https://cymaticaudio.com/images/downloads/manuals_and_brochures/Cymatic_uTrack-X32_FullManual_EN.pdf

    Attachments:
    #28946
    Cederick ForsbergCederick Forsberg
    Participant

    Oh welll… Sending it back today.

    Sad it has to be that way…

    I really like the Cymatic Live Recorder-16 and used it live (whenever I haven’t been able to have my own Behringer X32) and never an issue recording with the LR16!

    #28981
    PeterPeter
    Participant

    Hello. Laszlo

    For your information

    Last week I have the opportunity to test again on a live show, with a similar setup as ware I start the topic and have all dropouts and streaming errors.

    The setup was a Midas M32r <<<<>>>> X32 Core with the Cymatic card as record and the sync clock comes from the M32r. I format the (same) hard drive. Almost direct when I start the record I get problems. Like dropouts and other errors

    (20:58:54) -> Fw:3865 HwVs:2
    (20:58:54) -> Device type:Hard Drive, Vendor:HGST HTS, ProductId:545050A7E380 , Rev:GG2O
    (20:58:54) -> Start prepare pre-recording
    (20:58:55) -> Date 30-09-17
    (20:58:55) -> Created Folder : /MultiTrack/_TempTake0003
    (20:58:55) -> SR:48000 depth:24: ActiveTracks:32
    (20:58:55) -> StreamingChannelMode set to Recording… NoChange!
    (20:58:55) -> Started pre-recording
    (21:00:49) -> Start Recording
    (21:00:50) -> Renaming Directory from /MultiTrack/_TempTake0003 to /MultiTrack/Take0003
    (21:00:50) -> Entered Recording State
    (21:00:55) -> Next Gapless recording file created : MultiTrack/Take0003/Take0003(0002).wav
    (21:08:48) -> Next Gapless recording file created : MultiTrack/Take0003/Take0003(0003).wav
    (21:10:12) -> Error: Dropout @:548 seconds
    (21:10:16) -> Error: Dropout @:549 seconds
    (21:10:21) -> Error: Dropout @:550 seconds
    (21:10:26) -> Error: Dropout @:551 seconds
    (21:10:31) -> Error: Dropout @:555 seconds
    (21:10:31) -> Error: No streaming message received for last 10 seconds!!!
    (21:10:37) -> Error: Dropout @:573 seconds
    (21:10:40) -> Error: Dropout @:583 seconds
    (21:10:45) -> Error: Dropout @:585 seconds
    (21:10:49) -> Error: Dropout @:586 seconds
    (21:10:57) -> Error: Dropout @:604 seconds
    (21:11:09) -> Error: Dropout @:615 seconds
    (21:11:13) -> Error: Dropout @:617 seconds
    (21:11:16) -> Error: Dropout @:619 seconds
    (21:11:21) -> Button Stop pressed from uRemote: Stopping recording Now
    (21:11:24) -> Exiting Recording State

    I test it a couple of times and still I get dropouts and streaming error, so I try again this weekend the hard drive with a complete new setup ad my home

    The test setup ware a X32 Core with “Cymatic Utrack” as playback over AES50-A >>>> X32 Compact AES50-A with “Cymatic Utrack” As record unit. The recording card is set on AES50- A 1 32 as source, and the core get his clock from the compact over AES50.

    The record time was a couple of hours without any dropouts or something else. For me is it clear that there are no problems with my hard drive, I’m 95% sure there must be something wrong in the AES50 path in combination whit a Midas DL32 firmware 1.7

    Maybe there are others users with the same problems or recognize this… please let we share the information Soo that we can help the Cymatic development team to find a solution. In stat of some others ho clams that Cymatic utrack is bad product and a waste of money.

    I’m a owner of 3 cards a friend of my have also one, normal we use it as standalone. Like one mixer with only the Utrack on board and the DL32 / s16 on stage we never have a problem, on till now (FOH M32 > DL32 < Monitor X32) we never has this big problems like the dropouts and streaming error.

    So Laszlo I hope you have something on this information …

    Greetings Peter
    Holland.

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